replacement engine and now won't start....

[Tooth & Claw]

No blockages, the heater matrix inside gets red-hot and obviously lets coolant pass through, engine temp rises when heater inside the car is set to off. The coolant won't flow forward. took both hoses off the radiator, no obstructions in them. let water flow through the radiator, no obstructions. can't see there being a blockage in the head as it flows to the heater. the thermostat is part of the housing but I might take it out of one of the spare ones. and try that. engine will struggle to gain temp initially or maintain it under light load.

problem with this is if it allows the radiator to get hot, I'd still need to drain the system to put the thermostat back in, reintroducing an airlock....if it is that!?

[Iceman205]

It sounds like it could be the water pump. Was it a genuine pump or cheap one? Did you spin the propeller to check new unit was sound? Pulley and drive belt all connected and tensioned properly? Not trying to doubt your mechanical skills, just process of elimination.
After all the bleeding you've done I can't see it being an air lock. 3 thermostats in a row can't be faulty. By the way did you change the water pump whilst rebuilding engine or during this heat issue?

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[lizzard-t]

I think MR Iceman has hit the nail on the spot there .
if it's a watermelon with a plastic impeller then they have been known to break on the shaft .
you got to look at it as if it's your heating system at home .
though it may circulate when at idle because it's relying on gravity ( i.e. Hot water will flow due to increased pressure higher hydrolic pressure)
when you put further load on the car there's not enough hydrolic pressure to push it through the radiator under gravity
which is why a pump is imployed .




23-56 plastic cuttlefish!

[Tooth & Claw]

So, the water pump was what I had thought after I got the replacement engine running and it wouldn't heat the pipes up. so I replaced it. it was not a genuine part but it did have a metal impeller. when the original one came off I could not fault it much to my surprise. the shaft and impeller were solid... the new one went on with a genuine gasket and the issue persists. still have the water pump from my original engine but honestly can't see it making a difference.

[RBH]

VX engines don't like pattern parts for some serviceable items...... especially thermostats.
so if your thermostat isn't genuine, I'd be getting the real deal.

I would also be checking the expansion tank cap as these are prone to going.

[Tooth & Claw]

Question, how does the expansion tank cap prevent the coolant flowing round the radiator but not the heater matrix?
The reason I ask is that the rad hoses don't get hot even with the cap off and the engine eventually reaches temperature but doesn't overheat until I put the cap on and take it for a drive.
Which leaves a little suspicion on the cap...
The vehicle now has a genuine thermostat fitted but aftermarket water pump.
There was no fault with the genuine pump but changed it as a process of elimination.

[Tooth & Claw]

Or a better way of phrasing my question would be. Since the expansion cap's are prone to failure, what are the symptoms it presents with?

[Tooth & Claw]

Ok, to confirm changing the expansion tank cap has not solved the problem. it was only £10.80 from vauxhall so thought it was worth an attempt.

Anyway to try and get my head round this problem I thought I'd sketch out the cooling system and maybe see where the issue lies.
It looks like it is bypassing the radiator altogether and forcing everything through the oil cooler behind the water-cooled turbo (oil filter housing and pressure switch are part of the assembly.)

What if I were to just clamp the the heater matrix hoses. that way it would have force it's way through the radiator!?

anyway I've attached a crude drawing to help explain it better.

[Iceman205]

This is becoming a bit of head scratcher. Let's rewind a bit here and start from the beginning as don't want to be going down parts roulette route.

1)The new engine, did it come with all ancillaries/sensors/coolant pipes/turbo etc. Basically anything that doesn't come with a bare block?

2)What did you swap over from your block to new block?

3)You say the engine was tested. Is this test reputable, you trust the information to be accurate?

4)Did you have any cooling issues with the old engine shortly before it's demise?

What I'm trying to work out is where the problem is. Is it the new block or is it the cooling system (hoses,rad etc) and what you changed and what you didn't. Through that we might be able to narrow down to where the problem is.

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[Tooth & Claw]

Replacement engine came with the, thermostat, water pump, water output manifold, water-cooled turbo and oil cooler and the sensors that would be directly connected to these parts.
it did not have A/C compressor, alternator,

so far I have changed the water pump (aftermarket) and genuine gasket, tried aftermarket thermostat and then swapped to the thermostat from my original engine and fitted a genuine expansion tank cap.

The salvage yard was confident enough to offer a 90 day warranty and explained several times both the insurance company they bought it off tested it and they tested it themselves.

No heating issues with the original engine,

[lizzard-t]

I would but I one of the old thermostat housings
so there's no thermostat in it and try that .
if everything went back as it came off and there's no blockage then it should flow .
ive never seen a car cooling system have as much of an airlock as this .thats if it's an airlock
which I don't think .


19-4 cable television!

[Iceman205]

You know I've thinking over this all day and racking my tiny brain and I think you have a blockage.
We can rule out thermostat, waterpump and radiator and it can't be an air lock.
Your getting heat from the matrix but that doesn't necessarily mean there's complete flow. I think it's just circulating around the engine, through the matrix and back through the engine again.
See the attached pic, that's where the coolant sensor and egr unit is and I think where your blockage will be. This part is a 3 way piece as it comes off the matrix, engine/egr and rad. The rad is after this hence the pipes not getting hot. The oil coolers can block up with crud too, happened on mine. It's was literally solid with gunk, had to use pressure washer to get it out.
In your sketch you've got the oil cooler on the front but it's round the back. The input hose comes out the back of the block and splits. One feeds the cooler and the other feeds the matrix. The outlet hose goes back into block from what I can see.
I would drain the whole system, flush every part you can i.e oil cooler, heater matrix, cylinder head.

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[Tooth & Claw]

Fantastic news. All is well.
I got some large hose clamps and clamped the heater matrix supply and exit pipes and the small pressure pipe from the expansion tank once the engine was up to temperature and the heater was blowing red hot.
I lifted the revs to 3000 and held it there for about 2 minutes and the heat started to build in the near side radiator hose and radiator.
I removed the clamps and took it for a short run around the block I checked and both hoses and radiator were nice and toasty and not overheating
Boom, sorted thank goodness.

Also can confirm cooling fan cuts in at 110 degrees and drops it to 100. Obviously it will only run when the expansion tank is sealed and the system is under pressure.

Running the engine with clamped hoses and especially with the expansion tank out of the system is not recommended as you are relying on the hoses and seals holding the 20psi pressure the system reaches.
Not a great pressure but certainly has the risk of blowing a radiator hose. It did unseat the pressure pipe union that required an O-ring to reseal... and drain and re-bleed of the cooling system (for the 7th time)

But finally the B14NET is running well again and the Insignia almost had a clean bill of health if the bloody headlamp bulb didn't blow!

Just want to thank you all fo your help, seriously I think I would of just handed it to the dealer if it weren't for the bouncing of ideas.

[Iceman205]

Glad you got it sorted pal and thanks for updating us all

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[RBH]

Well done buddy and thank you for the update