Scottish Independence 2

[nick.b]

Ok so not trying to start any fights and want to keep this civil but it's politics . Open to everyone regardless of where you stay, it would be interesting to see different opinions from the other side of the border.

What's your opinion on Indy ref 2?

Personally I think it's a waste of time and money, the SNP leadership are ignoring their "once in a generation" pledge and it will bring another 2+ years of uncertainty. We are a united country and should remain as such.

Not bashing the SNP they have seem to have done a good job and I did vote for them in the Scottish parliament elections I just don't think Scotland should be independent.

What's your views?

[jmagee]

Agree that there shouldn't be another. That said if there is can we have another brexit vote? And let our youngsters vote in it? I know a lot of 16-18 yo that aren't happy with that outcome.

Right. I'll come and hide with you

[Mo_miah]

I think leaving the EU is a huge mistake. Most people voted blindly. All areas of Scotland voted to remain so we shouldn't drag them out with us. Only reason May is dragging them out is so we are not alone in the s**thole England has created. Even NI voted to remain in the EU.
EU laws and market regs are so intertwined into our own that two years will not be enough to create our own laws and regs to create a stable country.
Our MPs act like school kids in the playground spending more time slating eachother than doing whats good for the country.
May may decide to bring the elections forward which was further drop confidence and create chaos for our economy.

Will find out if im still in a job by the end of the two years as i work in EU market regs. Fun times

[nick.b]

Valid point Mo, I did vote to leave the EU. I think the idea of the single market is great however I don't like the politics that comes with the EU.

Now that's not to say that all their policies are mince. There are a lot of very good policies possibly more good than bad.

For my understanding and liking there are to many unelected policy makers in the EU. I would prefer and possibly voted differently if it were the current governments which governed both Brussels and their home country's parliaments.

That said we live in a democratic society and to say that because Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU we should all stay or they should be allowed to stay is like saying because half of the states in the US voted for trump and half for Clinton they should have 2 presidents to rule over each side.

(Absolute nightmare typing that on a phone )

[Witty]

[chili]

Going slightly off track here what i find unbelievable are the people actually chosen to lead countries these days, i mean look at the size of the population of america and the best they could come up with were trump and clinton, then you see theresa may on the news and she looks like someone you'd expect to see working in a charity shop, why are we voting for these people?

[2000rpm]

It seems to me that if/when there is another referendum, there are now three choices which will make it more difficult for any choice to gain a majority vote:

1. Leave GB but join the EU.
2. Leave GB and leave EU.
3. Remain with GB and leave EU.

I think Scotland will be worse off if they leave GB.

(I'm English)

[conno57]

It should be called the Scottish referen..DUM part 2 !!

[Mo_miah]

That said we live in a democratic society and to say that because Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU we should all stay or they should be allowed to stay is like saying because half of the states in the US voted for trump and half for Clinton they should have 2 presidents to rule over each side.

you say we have a democratic society but any thing the MPs decide on must be signed by the house of lords and then the queen both of which are not elected. yes the queen does a lot for the country, but the lords... some are business men and women who look after the country, other are living off the family name and money and getting free money from tax payers for attending the house of lords meetings

[nick.b]

That's true about the lords but they cannot create legislation, yes they can revise and edit proposed laws before its passed back to the commons.

I do agree that the lords and commons need updating and those doing it for the wrong reasons expelled.

[BrianT]

The lords have no final say they can only review and then suggest changes. The commons then vote on whether to accept those changes. As regards the queen it's done like that as she is the head of state but it's unlikely she would ever refuse to sign regardless of the policy.
As regards Scotland it would appear that as many want another referendum as those that don't, maybe they should have a referendum to decide whether thay have another independence vote!

[Mo_miah]

if commons dont accept the changes then the case keeps bouncing back and forth between the two houses until they are both in agreement, so yes they do have a say
the cases are started by commons so that is what you are voting for, the team that will raise your case and argue the point, doesnt mean they can enforce it, they will need agreement from lords and then signed off by the queen
the will rarely refuse to pass a law if it has been through Parliament

[Rogue Joker 4885]

Kind of true; the House of Lords can make amendments to a Bill passed through the Commons but if the Commons wants to force something through irrespective then the Parliament Act(s) allow that. Acts can be passed whether the Lords like it or not. But very rarely.

[Scotty]

Commons have voted against the changes which means end of discussion Article 50 is approved and will be triggered. I have very strong feelings on the cult that is the SNP. They or Sturgeon do not speak for me, any of my family and any of my friends.
I think the first post mentioned that the SNP had done a good job?? Can you show me any examples of this??
Since 2007 Scotland had 4500 less teachers, over 1000 less Classroom Support Assistants for our most in need pupils. They have resided over the worst curriculum implementation ever in Scottish Schools. CfE isn't fit for purpose and this is backed up by the PISA report which puts Scottish kids behind every other kid in the British Isles and Estonia, Norway, France, Germany I could go on. The SNP tried to introduce The Named Person Policy. Totally Marxist in values invading the privacy of normally family the length and breadth of Scotland.
We have over 2500 nursing and Midwifery vaccines across Scotland, over 100 GP positions and more than double that of Consultants. 7 out of the 8 benchmarks for service in the NHS were not met in the last year and the NHS in Scotland requires a funding shortfall plugged of 300 million pounds.
The SNP have run up a 15 billion pound deficit in the past 10 years and are currently spending £130 for every £100 they collected. There have been votes in the Scottish Parliament on Fracking, local government budgets, Highlands and Islands assistance plus others that have defeated in votes that the SNP have still pushed head with anyway! North Lanarkshire Council where I live has to cover a 27 million pound cut in government funding this year alone. Every other council will lose similar money if not more.
They chose to freeze the Council Tax for 9 years therefore they have had to over spend to try and keep up!! Now this year I've been hit with a 15.5% increase as they haven't done it for nearly a decade!! They promised to abolish Council Tax within their manifesto of 2006/7 and its yet to be done.
Scotland is now the highest taxed country in the British isles. The SNP had the choice to increase the 40% tax bracket to approx 45k a year like the rest of the UK but they didn't and now anyone in that tax bracket which includes normal working families lose out in £500 a year unlike our neighbours in England wales and NI.
Public services are in disarray due to being under funded for years. Actually the SNP government under spent 200 million on Public services budget last year? Where did this money go while we are crying out for teachers, nurses and doctors!!
If you weren't put off the SNP by the above facts, not opinion, then their conduct in Holyrood while London was being attacked was utterly disgusting. SNP MSP Roseanna Cunningham shouting and pointing at other MSPs that the London attacks shouldn't stop us discussing Independence!! That's all they are interested in!!! Nothing else matters to them. They've even gone against the latest GERs figures because they don't suit them at the moment! Guess what figures they preached in 2014?? Yip, the GERs figures! They will stop at nothing to get what they want and that's to cause division, hatred and unrest amongst friends and families for their own personal gain.
2014 was a once in a lifetime referendum. Said many times by Sturgeon and Salmond but not only 2.5 years later they want another one. They'll quote that Brexit changed everything and the Scottish people are being dragged out against our will. Well I'm definitely not as I was one of the million Scots who voted for Brexit. She'll quote that 67% of Scottish people voted remain. Not exactly true. It's actually 67% of those who voted. As Scots as a whole it's only 42.5%. The SNP twisting figures to meet their own needs. Apart from anything it wasn't a Scottish Vote in was a UK vote which was clearly stated in 2014 and before. If anyone voted NO in 2014 because they believed it was the only way to stay in the EU were delusional. It's a democratic vote which could go either way. The Scottish people 85% voted in 2014 to stay part of the UK. That's democracy. Sturgeons take on democracy is if you don't like the result complain and twist and trick everyone into believing we were robbed and there should be another IndyRef vote! Give me bloody strength. So she didn't like the 2014 vote result or the 2016 vote result so every time she doesn't like something is she just going to moan and complain and get another IndyRef every few years?? She can **** right off!! In her Manifesto in 2015/16 she said, and did th slimey Greens that a vote for the SNP wouldn't be a vote for Independence!!! That's exactly what it was for!! She's a pathological liar and only excepts her version of events.
I nearly vote YES in 2014 but I researched the figures and they didn't stack up. They stack up even less now!!! No oil revenue so to speak of, Scottish Government will be responsible for pensions!! No money no money no money!!
There are now 260000 Scottish Children in child poverty up 90000 since the SNP came to power.
They had the chance to take on the Welfare and Benifits budget and run it from Holyrood which would have gave the SNP the powers to make a difference in young lives. What did they do??? Yip, asked for it to stay in Westminster and then moan when they don't like the changes made to it..
Im sick fed up of hearing it's Westminsters fault for this she that. Austerity this and austerity that. A vote for Independence will be a vote for the hardest Brexit of the lot. No EU as we'll be at the back of the queue. No Euro as a currency, not that I want it as I don't want Germans setting my interest rates. So we'd be out the UK, our biggest single market and closest neighbours and out theEU! Great plan that!!! A vote for Independence is a vote for a cult who don't care about Scottish people. They only care about making names for themselves and to hell with everyone else.

Sturgeons mandate will be trumped in this first months of negotiations! The EU Chief in charge of these negotiations has already stated that the two priorities are securing the place of EU and British citizens here and abroad and getting a single trade deal set up so that no tariffs are present to make transition easy! If these two things are settled quickly then there is no Mandate for IndyRef 2 not that there was one in the first place.

I voted NO in 2014 and OUT EU in 2016 with a clear conscience having read up on everything I could. I wasn't lied to or led down the garden path on any sides policies or ploys.

Democracy is what Theresa May is currently doing. She was a remainer but the British people spoke and she is carrying out their wishes whether she agrees or not! Unlike Sturgeon who is totally undemocratic and will do exactly as SHE pleases for her own self gratification.

Ill get get off my soapbox now. Mark shouldn't have shown me this thread!

[exclusiv.]

Not one swear word,,,,well done Scott