Would Clutch gone prevent starting / turning engine over??

[grahal]

Hello

2009 Insignia 2.0 CDTi ... my son in Law's car so I'm getting the symptoms 2nd hand, but car stopped while driving yesterday after some vibration / running rough / sounding like a tractor on just that journey of 8 miles or so!

Car would not start after stopping, lights on dash etc and there is a click when key is turned but then dash lights go out, engine makes no attempt to turn over. Just to make sure it's not the battery, I put jumper leads from my car to his ... same gig ... lights out and a click but no attempt to crank the engine.

If the clutch has gone is there any interlock that would prevent cranking of the engine??

The lights out no engine cranking kinda feels like a key / immobiliser issue??

Any thoughts / comments please or any questions that would help me to diagnose why no engine cranking?

Thank You In Anticipation
GraHal

[Dakelly112]

Did it come up with any warnings? It sounds like that starter is trying to engage but if it can't turn it then it could be that the oil pump pick up seal has gone and the engine has seized.

[grahal]

Thanks Dakelly112 ... I'll try putting in 3rd gear and pushing the car back and forth to see if engine will turn.

The click when turning the key sounds like a low current relay rather than the starter solenoid, but yeah good suggestion re engine seizure and that is the next thing to isolate as a possible cause.

Cheers

[markf497]

I have a 2014 2.0 cdti and if I try to start it without pressing the clutch all the dash lights go out except the handbrake light and there is a click when I try to start it, ther click isn't very loud and is from inside the car not from the starter motor. When I release the key the dash lights come back on and the display tells me to depress the clutch to start the engine.

[grahal]

Thanks markf497 Yes it is the scenario you describe except we are pressing the clutch pedal down when trying to start the engine.

Maybe the micro-switch that tells the ECU that the clutch is depressed has gone faulty? But the odd thing is that the engine cut out whilst being driven.

[markf497]

Thanks markf497 Yes it is the scenario you describe except we are pressing the clutch pedal down when trying to start the engine.

Maybe the micro-switch that tells the ECU that the clutch is depressed has gone faulty? But the odd thing is that the engine cut out whilst being driven.

If your clutch has gone that it might be telling the ecu that it isn't depressed. Does your clutch pedal pressure feel ok have you tried pushing the car with it in and out of gear?

[lizzard-t]

Hello grahal as in the symptoms you discribed in your original post " vibration / running rough/ sounding like a tractor "
Something went " wobbly before it cut out .
You don't say what power output the engine has , is it a 160 ?
If you can get a socket and a long bar on the bottom flywheel to see if you can turn the engine by hand ?

[grahal]

If your clutch has gone that it might be telling the ecu that it isn't depressed.

Yeah that was my line of thought also.

Does your clutch pedal pressure feel ok

Yes the clutch pedal pressure feels fine / correct.

have you tried pushing the car with it in and out of gear?

Pushes as normal out of gear.

4 adults (2m & 2F) getting a rock going then all pushing hard and we could not overcome the friction / seized engine / brake binding pressure!?
Tried above in 3rd, 4th and 6th gear ... back of car was kinda lifting up but no forward movement of the car whatsoever.

(For the record I am going to try same exercise on my car (Honda 2.2 diesel) to see if 4 adults can rotate engine in gear etc? I'm sure I've done it on my own before now ... for a few feet when I wanted to mmm can't think! ha old skool engines when doing timing etc etc.)

[grahal]

You don't say what power output the engine has , is it a 160 ?
If you can get a socket and a long bar on the bottom flywheel to see if you can turn the engine by hand ?

Power - 160 bhp

Mmm yeah I'll see re socket etc ... thank you for the suggestion.

[Dakelly112]

Pushes as normal out of gear.

4 adults (2m & 2F) getting a rock going then all pushing hard and we could not overcome the friction / seized engine / brake binding pressure!?
Tried above in 3rd, 4th and 6th gear ... back of car was kinda lifting up but no forward movement of the car whatsoever.

(For the record I am going to try same exercise on my car (Honda 2.2 diesel) to see if 4 adults can rotate engine in gear etc? I'm sure I've done it on my own before now ... for a few feet when I wanted to mmm can't think! ha old skool engines when doing timing etc etc.)

Did you make sure the hand brake was off?

[kentishbloke]

My thoughts would be either engine seized due to failure of oil pickup seal or timing belt/chain gone. I wouldn't expect a failed clutch to stop the engine dead unless it was a catastrophic failure & something jammed it totally.

[lizzard-t]

If you have tried pushing the car out of gear and it free wheels ok then it can't be a brake binding issue..
Not unless ( and this is just a thought ) water pump has seized and something has locked the engine up . but without further diagnostics ( ie removal of engine parts ) .it's a guessing game .

[grahal]

Did you make sure the hand brake was off?

hahah Yeah I did several times, but good point! Thank You

[grahal]

then it can't be a brake binding issue...

Well my son in Law had to push the car into a safe place to leave the car, but after we towed it back to his house then he left the handbrake on so that was why I mentioned brakes binding. I will try tomorrow again pushing out of gear to eliminate brakes binding possibility.

Also today - so I know for the future - we pushed my car (Civic 2.2 Diesel) in 4th gear and we fairly easily pushed my car forward and could feel two compression strokes as we moved forward several feet. I then put my car in 6th gear and pushed it easily forward several feet on my own so it is looking like an engine seizure on the insignia or as kentishbloke mentioned ... possibly a catastrophic clutch failure in some weird way.

Thanks Guys anyway for making suggestions ... it's easy to overlook basic checks, especially as I am only getting a few minutes each day near the car amid the Christmas activities etc.

[grahal]

Apologies for delay, but to round off this post for any future readers ... symptoms were caused by a seized engine ... due to failure of the oil pick up seal I reckon.

My son in law sold the car for £450 to a buyer who had just smashed his Insignia so I think his plan was to make 1 good un out of 2!